This is the home page of cashenblades. You may have noticed that you were redirected to this page from the old familiar cashenblades home page. This is a work in progress to bring you more content and information in an up to date, responsive format.
Since I have insisted on maintaining total control over the production of these videos, doing all the shooting, editing and mastering myself, it makes it much easier to apply changes when I get these suggestions.
So, I am very happy to announce that after some re-editing, and remastering, the second edition is now available. Due to having to meet the deadline of the Blade Show, some small keying artifacts specks of noise in the green screen effects got past me the first time around, and these are now gone. The navigation menu has a much more linear flow as well. Next weekend, August It was over two years ago that Karen and I did some brainstorming on the drive home from Atlanta on how to best help all of the people who come to me looking for heat treatment information for their particular steel…and that is when the concept was born.
The idea is to take each alloy and devote my undivided attention to every aspect of its heat treatment, backed up with lab work, to produce a package of completely objective and solid information. I knew right away that the first video would be made for makers starting out with the some of the most user-friendly alloys there are: and For a couple of months, I sealed myself in my shop and metallurgy lab with these two steels and studied what is really happening during their heat treatment.
Already this project is changing the way I look at steel and how we as bladesmiths heat treat it. I also found out that there is one thing more torturous than getting blades done in time for the Blade Show, and that is editing an hour and a half video!
But, I felt it was necessary to see to it the information is all presented correctly. For instance, I insisted on a two pronged approach where I share information for both the digital oven and the guy with a forge.
I can safely say that the website contains mere cliff notes compared to what I am able to present in an hour and half devoted to each steel. So, coming soon will be my guides to 80CrV2, O-1,and others. Click Here to Buy. Years ago one of my best clients asked if there was a sword that I had wanted to make, and one immediately came to mind.
These really great swords are not on display but are tucked safely away in an archival vault. Since that time, several of those swords called to me from my stacks of sword document sheets. One in particular had both elements of a cut and thrust sword and a rapier, handling just like the later but also capable of a serious cutting action.
It was believed to have been assembled by Dresden swordsmith Othmar Wetter in for Elector Christian I of Saxony, and the hilt work was stunning.
I always wanted to recreate that piece and now a client was offering me the chance. I created some design drawings for the project and, after deciding to forgo some of the more over-the-top elements of the lavishly gilded hilt, my client agreed that it would be the sword to make. Over the next couple of years, I worked on the piece while also tending to my many other teaching, speaking and general bladesmithing obligations.
It took me most of the fall of to finish the decorative chisel work on the complex hilt, but by February I was finally ready to deliver what was one of the finest pieces I have made to date.Forums Recent Posts New posts.
Anyone know what it is? LCV Knife Snob. It's super super tough. Give Matt Paul a call. He uses it a lot and some of his testing on it makes me believe when properly treated it's among the very best high end steels for a hard use, woodsmans blade. Last edited: Mar 5, Bushclass I. Ive been using it as my main steel for a while. I think that the europian grade of 80crv2 may be slightly different as well. It is a wonderfully tough, springy steel that holds an edge very well.
However, as a knife maker I can say that a properly heat treated knife is more important that any specific steel, one vs the other. Basically it's a really good steel, comparable to in a way. I hear you on the heat treat.
So my next question may seem dumb, but how would it compare to say O1 or silversteel? TStilwell Guide. I've gained a very basic understanding of what the elements that are added to steels do, I mean basic lol.
Tell me about 80CrV2...
That said 80crv2 has less vanadium and carbon than O1 as well as most of the other elements, so I'm guessing it's the addition of the phosphorus and sulfur that increase its toughness, and am wondering if a bit more of the carbon and vanadium would add to it or upset the balance. Again very basic understanding of this and just wondering aloud so to speak, hoping someone with a better understanding might be able to chime in.
I'm pretty eager to get ahold of some and try it out myself. Frederick89 Scout. Both gets an extremely keen edge. Frederick89 said:. Monkeynono Supporter Supporter. Does toughness mean that it can take more abuse, less likely to break? I really am intrigued and hope I'm not splitting hairs, just curious as to what is more preferable in a blade: toughness vs.Does anyone have the HT for this nailed down?
I've been treating it like with good results. I've heard that an F soak pre-HT helps dissolve carbides. OK, I don't know where the F came from, stuck in my head from somewhere. I found this on a UK site. I definitely wouldnt say "nailed down" but Ive been heat treating it like maybe only a tad hotter, only difference is during normalization. A lot of the stuff i read had people quenching in water and stuff, which i ignored and i was pleased with my results. Since i have a fair amount of this left id like to see any other options that others might have better success than mine since i only have done 2 blades in this so far.
As I understand it there is a wide window of results you can get depending on the way you cycle the steel. So it can vary in toughness and hardness. Aldo might have the info and I think Kevin the professor has a good handle on the whats and hows of it. The one thing I noticed after heat treat is that it has a deep decarb and then is hard as Chinese arithmetic!!!
I broke a blade after this heat treat and had great grain on it, and it was tough and hard as hell, so here is how I heat treat it. I use my propane forge, a baffle pipe, and a thermocouple so depending on what you use, your results may vary. I do the standard three cycle normalization followed by a quench into Parks I do this at night so I can watch for recalescence.
The knife goes into the forge cold, the forge is fired up, and then gets heated to F slowly. I think this first heat cycle takes maybe 30 minutes to get to temp, so real slow. I leave it at F for a few minutes 2 or 3 maybefarting with the gas if I have to to keep it there. Take it out and cool in still air. The forge is turned off and while the knife cools, so does the forge. I let the forge drop to F or so, then the knife goes back in. The forge does not get fired up again until F though. Once at F, the forge gets fired back up again, and the knife is brought up to F slowly.
Reader Question – O1 vs 80CrV2
The second heat is faster than the first, but it still takes 10 minutes or so. By this point, I have the gas turned way down so that the heat builds slowly. Once at F, it stays in for a few minutes again, and then back out to cool. Forge is turned off again.
Knife goes back in the forge at F, and the forge is fired back up again at F. Once atthe forge gets fired back up again, and the knife is brought up to F slowly. The third heat takes about as long as the second, around 10 minutes or so. The gas turned way down so that the heat builds slowly and if possible, I turn it down even more. I typically have the torches right above the point where they start to sputter.While one steel might excel at certain tasks, it may fail miserably compared to other steels if it is used for the wrong application.
So, with tongue planted firmly in cheek, I decided to engage in an exhaustive, highly accurate, irrefutably scientific survey by asking some guys we know… who just happen to be world class knifemakers… the following question:.Knife making - Heat Treating 52100 & 80crv2
When you first posed this question to me I thought my answer would be quick and easy, but the more I thought, it became not so simple. I use mostly all high alloy high wear steels, most of all is CPM 10V. That, however, is not the only steel I would want to use from now on as it is just not versatile enough. I have made hunting and bushcraft knives, camp knives and choppers, as well as kitchen and chef knives, all from 4V.
It is also the steel that I am using in my Bladesports Competition Chopper. Edge holding, toughness, and versatility were the criteria I used when choosing which steel I would pick, and 4V has a great combination all three.
Wait, we do! CPM has 1. I should admit I have a lot of practice sharpening knives free hand and use DMT stones so that can skew my prospective on how easy it is to sharpen a steel. I would remind the reader, if you spend one minute sharpening a knife ten times, or ten minutes sharping a knife once, it all comes out to the same, so the ease of sharpening bothers me less than the others.
I like the toughness of the particle steels. It allows me to chase the higher grinds and thinner blade that produces the lighter knives that I so love. It takes longer and costs a little more for me to work with but the payoff is there in the performance. The Vanadium carbides can be manipulated to provide a superior ability of sharpening and edge holding.
The carbon amount allows for high hardness without sacrificing ductile strength. I can do anything from a fully polished beauty to a belt finished field knife and know that the steel will stand up to generations of use.
There are only bad applications. If I had one steel to choose to use for the rest of my life it would be S7 tool steel. Reason being this steel is extremely tough and I feel it would never fail under any conditions.
It holds an edge well and is easy to sharpen with simple sharpening tools.
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As a side note, I have seen firsthand the results of Mr. Whereas other high end steels will shatter, Scott fired a couple of rounds of. Not only did the edge survive it merely deflected into a bowl shapeit was still sharp and usable. I was amazed! Hunt Custom Knives. If I could only use one steel for the rest of my life for my knives, It would no doubt be O1 tool steel.
Simple preventive maintenance or just plain old common sense knife care affords a good working tool for many years. I think the longevity of its existence says a lot. O1 has been around forever and its definitely not going away anytime soon, especially in my shop. My answer would have to be. CPM TV. I might just have enough to last As long as I need. Firstly, understand that I am not a metalurgist. A big factor in my steel choice is ease of grinding.Forums New posts Search forums.
Thread starter J. Hoffman Start date May 25, Hoffman Dealer - Purveyor. I just recently got some 80CRV2 and started playing with it. I broke the spine when grinding one knife and just used it as heat treat test. The grain was a little courser than I liked, but the Rc was right at So I did two more samples. The first one got a thermal cycling treatment.
It was cooled in vermiculite after each heat. I then austenized two samples, the one that had the cycling and one that did not. The non-cycled piece came in at 60 Rc and the other came in at 57 Rc again. Both pieces are very short and I'm having a hard time snapping them to get the grain size.
I need a longer lever to snap it. I'm curious as to why the one is so much softer than the other. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Last edited: May 25, RG-Art New Member. Did you grind the surface before the hardness check? If not I guess you had some decarbonization on the cycled piece. Also I think you soak to long.
I've used some 80CRV2 and I get best results with soaking between 3 and 5 minutes at Kevin R. Cashen Super Moderator. The cycling conditioned the carbides for quicker solution on austenitizing, it is pretty much the same treatment I prescribe for folks having trouble getting proper solution in heavily spheroidized steels, particularly with chrome. BTW, you are aware that the Parks 50 is made for water hardening steels, and the CrV2 is a deep hardener?
IT could very well account for your cracking.Here are some basic heat treating instructions for several common knife steels. There are as many heat treat recipes as there are knifemakers, but in general, the information below represents the way I do it.
Available at www. If stock removal, no normalization required. If forged, normalize x3 at decreasing heats. To harden, heat to a little past nonmagnetic F if you have temp controlshort soak maybe 5 minutes, then quench. Quench oil should be canola, vet grade mineral oil, or a fast commercial quench oil.
The extra carbon makes heat treating more complex. Heat tosoak 10 minutes. O1- Deep hardening alloy steel.
Normalize x3 if forged, then F for 10 to 30 minutes. Do not overheat after normalization. Canola, mineral oil, transmission fluid, etc. Reputation for toughness. Normalize x3 after forging. To harden, heat toshort soak, then quench in any medium oil. D2 — High carbon tool steel. Abrasion resistant, semi-stainless. Hard to sharpen, but holds an edge a long time.
Foil wrap, x 20 minutes, plate quench, dry ice cryo. Temper to depending on as quenched hardness.We provide you with the information and tools you need to make good decisions.
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